Panzer Battles 2: Normandia

[Gonzalo]

Uffffffff!!!! , este SI es un pedazo de titulo, va a cubrir una cantidad y variedad de situaciones tacticas,ucho mayor que el de Kursk

[Javso]

Como decía mi abuela: ¡¡¡¡¡¡ Madre del amor hermoso !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nomada_squadman45]

Se me olvido poner una captura del listado de escenarios, parece que aun quedan unos "cuantos" jejeje.



El Kursk la verdad para cubrir la batalla que cubria quedo bien pero claro, no es al menos para mi gusto la mejor batalla para cubrir... es un poco como El-Alamein en el norte de Africa... si, es interesante, tiene fama pero cuando te pones a jugarla es algo encorsetada en cuanto a situaciones tacticas.

En esto el Normadia aunque me parezca una batalla/campaña "aburrida" ofrece mas opciones para un guargamer de pro

[nomada_squadman45]

Pues parece que no solo tendra una nueva "feature" el motor... yo ya he contado unas cuantas Y NO SON la tan cacareada nueva caracteristica del motor

Minas y obstaculos en el agua
For water obstacles, yes these are the equivalent to mines and obstacles. Not a lot of fun when you run a fully laden landing craft onto one under the barrel of an 88. Like on land mines and obstacles these are hidden until found.



Los dos tipos de hexagonos maritimos... las unidades anfibias solo pueden entrar en los de poca profundidad, pero en la playa de Omaha especificamente las unidades pueden aparecer aleatoriamente en el mar para dar mas caos al escenario y caer en el mar ademas añaden para estas tropas la opcion de ser rescatadas
As far as units in water, yes there are two types; ocean and shallow water. Non amphibious units can move through shallow water but not ocean. The reason you see land units in the ocean at Omaha is because there is a random scatter on arrival. This is the only beach we use this at to represent the chaos that occured. There are some spare landing craft available to 'rescue' these marooned men, but that just adds to the time and confusion.

Y bueno, a seguir esperando mas informacion

[nomada_squadman45]

Parte 5ª y epilogo del AAR

http://kriegsimulation.blogspot.com.es/ ... art-5.html
http://kriegsimulation.blogspot.com.es/ ... logue.html

[Chelco]

Hola!

Gracias por el enlace y por leer my AAR. Un excelente juego y un teatro de operaciones bien interesante.

Saludos!

JC

[nomada_squadman45]

Gracias a ti por el AAR, sinceramente aunque se trata de una version temprana del juego es muy interesante para enseñar el tipo de mecanica que tiene... aunque no soy un gran fan de Normandia para el tipo de escala de la serie pienso que es mejor que Kursk si lo que buscas son escenarios medios y los grandes son mas variados que en Kursk.

Aun esto con la mosca detras de la oreja por saber cual es la nueva mejora del motor... no es el tema de los hexagonos acuaticos, ni lo relacionado con ellos, podria ser algo en el apartado AT porque en tu AAR parece que las perdidas acorazadas fueron bastante altas para el tamaño del mismo.

En cuanto al AAR... acabo como imaginaba, tipo campana, en cuanto aparecieron los Panther+JgPz los avances en los flancos se estancaron, quizas no da mas opciones el escenario para el aliado... eso o cargar todo en un flanco, el este, por aquello de tomar el objetivo de 50 puntos que tomaste y luego ir a por el de 150 de este a oeste mientras en el otro flanco te limitas a defender la factoria tras tomarla, en parte porque atacar por la factoria es hacerlo en terreno mas bajo pero sobretodo por tener el flanco cubierto por los cañones enemigos al otro lado del rio.

En resumen gracias de nuevo por el AAR, yo al menos lo he disfrutado mucho... diles a ver si te dejan hacer otro

[nomada_squadman45]

Por fin es viernes


Esta semana vienen aun mas cargaditos que en la anterior... y mira que era dificil

Lo primero informacion variada.

Han sometido a la operacion bikini al escenario mas tocho del juego, lo han adelgazado 26 turnos aparte de retocar algunos escenarios mas
"'Quite a few testing results came in and we have tweaked some scenarios accordingly. The longest scenario in the game had 26 turns removed from its overall total, so it’s that little bit shorter and hopefully more playable. I've been involved in this particular play test and it’s amazing the range of tactical situations that arise in some of the bigger battles. All in all it feels like you're really battling in the bocage. "

Toqueteos bajo la ropa del mapa, al OOB
There have been a few more adjustments to the map and a couple of significant tweaks to the order of battle.

Y mas escenarios, basados en variantes, con una retirada de la pausa historica de 6 horas en un gran escenario.
I am also working on another medium to large scenario that has some very unique features. Historically the Allies 'paused' for six hours with some of their key formations awaiting some follow on attacks. We will build this into the scenario and probably have a variant where the pause doesn't occur.

I toqueteo al los graficos
The other area that has had some additional work has been some nationality dependent vehicle graphics.



Aqui responden indirectamente al tema de hasta cuando cubre el juego
There were also questions about how far into the campaign we model. Lets just say the French did not arrive in Normandy until late July and they are available to be used in scenarios. These are examples of the masters we use for creating the side graphics;

Yo entiendo que si los meten en el OOB es porque entraran y lucharan asi que la duda es mas bien cuantos habra de la fase tardia.. y como de tardios seran.


En total hay 9 escenarios del 7 al 22 de junio asi que con los ya vistos andaremos... por debajo del 50% de los escenarios o cerca... me oriento por la barra de desplazamiento.


Dia D+1 en Juno
Juno D+1 covers the resumption of the Commonwealth drive to capture both Caen and the Carpiquet Airfield. This is a reasonably sized scenario and includes the first engagement of the Hitlerjugend Division which had marched for the last 24 hours from its reserve position (again you can view these images full size by right clicking or using a touch device);


Aqui esos grandes amigos de la 12SS y Canada...
Authie was authored by Kevin Hankins and covers the vicious counterattack the SS executed against the strung out Canadians. This engagement was so bloody that the Canadians and HJ had a pathological hate for each that transcended the campaign;


Le Mesnil is a small 8 turn scenario that covered the ambush of advancing Canadian forces;


Un sitio llamado... Villers Bocage... no me suena de nada
Villers Bocage is the famous Michael Wittmann engagement where his Tiger company managed to stop 7th Armoured Division as it tried to flank Caen. This composite image shows some of the starting forces and Wittmann about to surprise the British who had 'stopped for a spot of tea';


Caumont covers Villers Bocage and the bigger events around Operation Perch. The bulk of 7th Armoured Division is available as is elements of Panzer Lehr, 2nd Panzer Division and the 101st SS Tiger Battalion.


Carentan... a ver quien encuentra a Spielbergo
Carentan on June 13th is a Rick Bancroft scenario and covers the fighting around Hill 30. The US Paratroopers were planning to continue their advance with support from 2nd Armored Division when the newly arrived 17th SS Panzergrenadier Division with 6th FJ Regiment launched their own attack in an attempt to capture Carentan;


Un what if... sobre Carentan y si el contraataque aleman hubiese salido bien con un contraataque aliado.
Carentan Revisited is a hypothetical scenario based on the premise that the prior days German attack had been successful and Carentan had fallen. The Americans have to try and recapture this key town;


Cherburgo... quizas un escenario que sea del agrado de los que gustan de los retos jugando como aleman, ademas tendra sus propias cositas para simular la batalla, los turnos nocturnos en duracion se han tocado y el escenario en si aun esta bajo testeo para acortarlo ya que por ahora tiene 88 turnos y cubre una batalla de 2 dias.
Cherbourg Landfront is the first monster scenario after 'The Longest Day'. Currently it runs for 88 turns or two+ days. This scenario is still in testing and may have the total number of turns reduced based upon the results we see. There is a dedicated parameter file so that night turn length and other items can be tweaked to cover this unique battle. This shot will give you an idea of the overall area of the battle at maximum zoom out;


Here is another shot from Cherbourg Landfront showing the US forces preparing to attack the German defenses. The 'Landfront' was extensive, but the delay in the Germans retreating into the fortifications coupled with their poor quality gave the US infantry a chance to breakthrough through the fortified areas;


Cherbourg Right Flank is just that, a subset of Cherbourg Landfront - the attack of 4th Infantry Division to try and clear Theville airfield and then attack the city from the east;


Aqui comentan que las unidades AAA son estaticas para que la defensa alemana se concentre entorno a estas posiciones, como se puede ver no tendran tropas de calidad los alemanes...
The defenses around the airfield were built around the resident AA positions with scratch Luftwaffe 'Alarmheiten' or emergency militia to provide some backbone. There was significant flak at Cherbourg but there was a dearth of transport to move it around. This is represented in the scenario by making the bulk of the AA units static and the German defenses tended to gravitate to these positions;


Y nada mas, la verdad hay material para tocarse al menos un par de dias y luego un cigarrito

Sigo diciendo que la campaña de Normandia me parece aburrida pero para un wargame a esta escala resulta perfecta por la variedad de escenarios que ofrece.

PD: y la semana que viene... hablaremos del gobierno!!!

[Gonzalo]

Cuando veo un post el viernes tarde en este hilo voy primero a la pagina de JTS para ver si ha salido ya
Madre mia que ganas
Gracias por tantisima informacion nomada

[Javso]

yo ya me estoy toqueteando y con cigarrito. Buaaaa ese escenario de Cherburgo

[nomada_squadman45]

Y otra vez es viernes... una semana mas viejos y talluditos y alguno con algunas dioptrias de mas por abusar

Ahora toca periodo intermedio finales de junio y mediados de julio... mucho Epson y tal




Operacion Martlet, por lo visto se han lucido para representar la doctrina britanica... sera lo de maximizar los exitos, minimizar las cagadas y te, mucho te a las five o´clock por lo visto sera una batalla de desgaste brutal... interesante, como tener los WWI pero en la segunda guerra mundial en escala seccion... quien sabe si no veremos a esta escala algun titulo del a primera guerra mundial... anda que no molaria... o un batalla del Ebro

Jeff has modelled the British doctrine used in the Epsom battles very well. The British forces fought an 'attrition' battle where units would move forward and once pinned, dig in and hold the ground that was taken. Follow up units would call in artillery on the enemy defensive points and then 'pass through' their dug in comrades and continue to push the attack forward. If they ran into trouble they would repeat the process.

As a doctrine this approach was good in concept but resulted in confusion and units in disarray when trying to pass through friendly formations while under fire.

Jeff's first scenario in the Epsom compendium is Operation Martlet. Martlet was designed to both take ground and draw German reserves away from the Epsom attack zones that were planned for the following day. Though only a brigade equivalent on both sides, this scenario runs for 24 turns.

As usual bigger versions of these maps can be seen with a touch device or by right clicking;




Primer dia en Epsom, la mayor concentracion de medio britanicos (ese canadiense con que se ha confundido de agujero para guardar la bayoneta...), un escenario tochaco con por lo visto unidades que se quedan paradas segun tema historico... imagino que sera algo como lo del France40 y la parada de las divisiones panzer al llegar a Dunkerque.

The first day of Epsom saw the largest concentration of Commonwealth units in one area in the Normandy campaign to date. The highlighted units are all fixed and only available later in the scenario. Some units will also become fixed based on the historical schedule on when they were committed and withdrawn from combat. This really was a very big scenario that Jeff worked on, but it's obvious how few units are actually available to use in the early turns





Segundo dia de Epsom 27 turnicos.

The second day of Epsom saw the British grinding forward. The British were leading with their armour to conserve their infantry strength and were paying a high price for the vulnerability of their Sherman tanks. In this 27 turn scenario, the British are about to run into the defences around Coleville. The Germans utilised the railroad cutting in the area as an impromptu tank ditch funnelling the British attack. Highlighted units again designate fixed troops at the beginning of the scenario;





El tercer dia 27 turnicos, interesante lo de la diferencia de camuflaje entre los TD... quizas el verde sea un M10 y el camuflado un Achilles... si, de hecho se nota el cañon mas largo si uno se fija un poco, tambien notar el Crusader AAA un interesante vehiculo de apoyo para picar la carne y tal.

On the third day of the Epsom Operation, British armour had managed to cross the Orne River and were in position to capture one of their key objectives - Point 112. The battered German forces had managed to funnel the British into a small area forcing them attack on a fairly narrow frontage. This resulted in fire from both flanks and losses for units that were trying to move forward and cross the Orne. The third day is another 27 turn scenario;





Cuarto dia de Epsom... parece la saga de Fast and furious pero sin coches sexys, solo ingleses con problemas dentales
Eso si, como siempre las tropas SS dando marcialidad al tema... aqui se ven a dos futuros viejas conocidas de los ingleses...

The fourth and final day of Epsom graphically shows why the operation ended in defeat for Montgomery. The II SS Panzer Korp with 9th & 10th SS Panzer Divisions had been moved from Russia to form the basis of the forces Hitler intended to use to push the Allies back into the sea. The pending British breakthrough at Point 112 resulted in the new SS Divisions being committed to pushing the British back. Here you can see the German forces forming up on the flanks of the British salient. II SS Korp is coming in from the south west;





Y por fin se acaba Epsom, que larga se me ha hecho... operacion Windsor... no, tranquilos, no hay que incendiar un rascacielos jejeje 28 turnicos

Finishing up with Epsom, the British pulled back to lick their wounds. A few days later the Canadians attacked Carpiquet Airfield which had fired upon the flank of the advancing British the previous week. Operation Windsor is a 28 turn scenario designed by Kevin Hankins that shows the desperate defence the Hitlerjugend put up against the Canadians;



Y ahora algo mas guiri... quiero decir AUN MAs
11 de julio, la recien llegada Panzer Lehr le toca bailar con la mas fea con un contraataque contra un enemigo preparado...

For a complete change of pace we move over to the American sector on July 11th, where the newly arrived Panzer Lehr Division counterattacks to stop the US VII Corps that had moved south after their Cherbourg success and were threatening to envelope St Lo from the west. Panzer Lehr was committed at night to avoid the Allied control of the air, but the close range fighting nullified many of the German advantages. The M-10 tank destroyers of the 9th Infantry Division were particularly effective at ambushing the heavier German tanks. Though initially successful, the Germans had little to show for the attack a day later;



Detallito de los gaticos alemanes caza ratones.



El fin, un escenario de 10 turnos con fallschirmjager mas quemados que el tubo de escape de la moto de un hippy contra una division de infanteria americana

The final scenario for today is the clearing of Hill 192. By coincidence, while Panzer Lehr counterattacked to the west near the Vire River, the US 2nd Infantry Division tried to capture Hill 192. The 3rd Fallschirm-Jaeger Division had held the hill since D-Day. This high ground allowed both the beaches at Utah and Omaha to be clearly seen and targeted. An attempt to take the hill in late June had failed disastrously with heavy casualties and the American's went away and perfected their infantry/tank co-operation. The second attempt at taking the hill showed the value of the training done. This 10 turn scenario was originally intended to be the 'Getting Started' scenario and should be used as a good introduction to Bocage fighting;




Y bueno, eso es to, eso es to, eso es todo amigos por esta semana

[tarokun]

Jue, esto es tactico????

[nomada_squadman45]

Es de la escala de los antiguos campaigns de Tiller pero en vez de usar valores numericos para las unidades de infanteria usa numero de soldados.

Digamos que esta entre los PzC y los SB pero claro, no es lo mismo Normandia cubierta a nivel batallon/compañia que cubierta a nivel de seccion cun un mayor nivel de detalle... y eso que el PzC Normandia es ya bastante detallista.

[Gonzalo]

Esta escala es perfecta para representar batallas, la justa. Mas detalle serian escaramuzas y menos operaciones o campañas asi que deja de trlear taro
Por cierto habalndo del tiller campaigns que sepais que el Middle east campasigns nuevo es BESTIAL!!!!, HACE MUCHO TIEMPO QUE NO DISFRUTABA TANTO CON UN GUARGAME PURO DE OMVRES, he vuelto a instalarme los campaigns antiguos y todo. Es un pasad dirigir tu regimeitno de T 62 en el golan, tus commandos y helicopteros en el sinai, tus merkava en el libano . Los que no lo jugais no mereceis leer este hilo de PzB

[nomada_squadman45]

No es por no comprarlo pero por el precio que le cascaron me espero a un descuento, yo ya tenia 30 leureles preparados para el pero como se pasaron del "precio justo" me espero si lo bajan un 25% caera si no tengo otra cosa entre manos y si tal me espero a un 50%, en el fondo lo que quieren es financiar el Vietnam, el Corea, el de conflictos de la guerra fria etc etc por lo que tendran que moverse mas con las ofertas sobretodo desde que mandan a tomar viento los Campaigns 2.0 y tienes que pasar por caja 3 veces para tener los de la WWII