AHORA SI Battlefront da la 1ª información sobre el CMX2 !!!!

[Justin [Gen]aro MacDuro]

Algo más de información en el mismo hilo de Battlefront:

Specifically, 1:1 man representation

Representación gráfica de cada soldado individual.

saludos

Cojonudo , espero que eso se refiera tambien a las crews de los cañones .Es que no mola nada eso de ver un 150 mm manejado por un unico tio

[Leta]

Y mucha más información acerca de Campañas

Os copio el post completo que ha puesto Jorgeas y otro par de ellos jugosos:

"I'm really not here to introduce new information, but I will remind people of stuff we've already said will be in CMx2 Specifically, 1:1 man representation and terrain graphics which are based on much smaller "tile" sizes.

Significantly smaller tile size was simply not possible back when CM was originally coded. Tile size is the root cause for pretty much all the "shortcomings" noted about the graphical representations over the past 5 years. With the new system (which basically doesn't use tiles at all) all sorts of things have changed. However, because CMx2 games won't contain hand crafted scenarios (like other games, especially FPS types) there will still be a bit of generic feel to individual objects. The only way to avoid that is to eliminate Quick Battles and the Editor, which I am sure you guys don't want

We are looking into ways of allowing people to add customized skins for objects on a scenario by scenairo basis. It won't allow for customized building shapes. Too early to say if this will happen or not as it is still on the "if we have time" list.

And a reminder that we are not talking about having some sort of über campaign system for CMx2. It will be more along the lines of CMx1 Operations but with a lot more control over the battles in the Campaign and the inclusion of "story" driven elements to give meaning to battles. Those of you who are hoping for some sort of "take my Battalion from Normandy to Berlin" or "simulate the entire Battle of Stalingrad" are going to be disapointed if that is what you think we are doing. Almost all the reasons we had for not doing this in CMx1 are still valid for CMx2. What has changed is our ability to make a more "propper" campaign system as many had requested as opposed to the more "on the fly" type system used for CMx1's Operations.

c3k, Hehe... boy, and that email was only typed at just after midnight. I'm usually still fresh as a daisy at that time. Guess not

No, there will be no "on the fly" Campaigns in CMx2.

Steve"

"The problem with on the fly is that we have to do a lot of coding to make things come out even remotely OK. Lots and lots of people bitched and griped about shortcomings in the Operations, and those weren't 100% on the fly either.

Many of the perceived shortcomings were a matter of opinion. Others were simply related to the difficulty of handling so many variables "correctly" each and every time. The development efforts to iron out these problems to the satisfaction of most is simply too great. Plus, it doesn't do anything for those who want a more story driven campaign, and those are (we think) the vast bulk of our audience. So the choice is rather clear for us.

Quick Battles and premade scenarios will of course remain a part of CMx2, but the story driven campaign will likey be the primary way the majority of people play the game.

Steve "

"I guess some definitions are in order

On-the-fly means something that is generated completely from the game according to very generic player options. Quick Battles are done on-the-fly as opposed to scenarnios made using the Editor. The problem with on-the-fly stuff is that it is very, very difficult to predict how various options will interact. Anybody who has played a bunch of Quick Battles can tell you that While the system generally works very well, it has shortcomings.

Story driven campaign is a series of battles which are linked together by a common plot line. Each battle is like a chapter in the story. Although it is commonly used for sci-fi and fantasy games, it is also very common for military based ones as well. Especially first person shooters.

The campaign itself can take many different forms, but generally people think of them as either static or dynamic. Static means that when the player wins the current battle the next battle is predetermiend no matter what the player does. Usually the forces are also static so even if you win the battle with one guy left standing, the next battle has you with all fresh units. Dynamic means that the player's performance in the current battle has some effect on what battle comes next and/or the troops under his command.

There are many variations on static and dynamic types of campaigns. CMx2 will be of the dynamic variety.

The story is, in many ways, chrome. But it is the kinda chrome that gets people to feel like they are behind the wheel of something special instead of a generic looking plastic and sheet metal utility car. The story will matter, even to those who think it won't. On top of that the story will offers us the ability to craft something that is highly polished and works exactly as we expect it to instead of having something where people find themselves plopped down into a battle that doesn't make sense or isn't much fun.

While I agree that many people here might think that this campaign concept isn't for them, customer base wide it is probably a minority view even on this forum. People have been clamoring for "context" since CMBO came out. The campaign gives that context in a way that individual battles, especially Quick Battles, never can. Still, individual battles will certainly be a part of the game because they are cool in a different way and therefore replacable by a campaign of any type.

The kind of über campaign that some are dreaming of is just not something we feel we can do. At least not for CMx2's first couple of releases. We've got too many things piled up on our plates as it is. Since we feel these things are desired by nearly everybody, the choice is really easy to make. We can never put in everything that everybody wants

I'm shying away from answering all the other questions because I can't allow myself to get sucked into a general CMx2 discussion quite yet. When you see a new forum set up to discuss CMx2, then you'll see a more generalized discussion. Not sure when that will happen, but it won't be too much longer.

Steve "

"As for the full game movie... we HOPE that we can make it work, but we'll just have to see. Obviously since we wanted it in CMx1 we want it in CMx2.

CMx2 similar to CMAK? Well, if you consider a Lexus in the same ballpark as a Ferrari... I suppose so CMx2 will have Campaign, Scenario, and Quick Battle options. Operations as you guys know them from CMx1 are out completely.

I think the best way to visualize the new campaign system is to imagine playing CMAK with a guy who has designed a complete campaign made up of individual scenarios. The scenarios are already "in the can" before you start to play. When you finish one battle the campaign dude chooses which scenario to give you next (based on a plan of some sort), tweaks the forces a bit to reflect previous losses/reinforcements, adjusts some global parameters to track your progress, then sends you the stand alone scenario file complete with tweaks. This repeats until complete.

This is very roughly what CMx2's campaign system will do. Only difference is that we aren't shipping each game with a live person to cobble together individual scenarios. We think it's more cost effective (and legal!) to have some code do that sort of thing

Steve "



Resumiendo lo más importante:

- Representación de cada soldado individual

- Tamaño de "tile" mucho menor (buena noticia para los diseñadores de escenarios)

- Se acabaron las Operaciones como las conocíamos. Ahora hay Campañas basadas en escanarios "linkados" a través de los cuales se desarrollan las batallas, pudiendo conservarse (o no) tropas de una batalla a otra. Que buenas campañas se van a poder diseñar con este sistema, ¿eh Granfali, Tábano y demás?

- Están estudiando muy seriamente el poder hacer la película completa de la batalla para verla al final de golpe.

De momento no está mal, ¿no?

[Lord-Blade]

Bueno, poco a poco van soltando prenda

Haber si el nuevo sistema de "campaña" esta de verdad bien hecho y no se limita solo a escenarios uno detras de otro..... .




Ta lego!!!!!!!!!

[Daga]

"Story driven campaign is a series of battles which are linked together by a common plot line."

"I think the best way to visualize the new campaign system is to imagine playing CMAK with a guy who has designed a complete campaign made up of individual scenarios. The scenarios are already "in the can" before you start to play. When you finish one battle the campaign dude chooses which scenario to give you next (based on a plan of some sort), tweaks the forces a bit to reflect previous losses/reinforcements, adjusts some global parameters to track your progress, then sends you the stand alone scenario file complete with tweaks. This repeats until complete."

Por lo que dice se puede llegar a la conclusión que puede ser algo similara a las batallas enlazadas como lo hacia el "close combat"

"There are many variations on static and dynamic types of campaigns. CMx2 will be of the dynamic variety. Each battle is like a chapter in the story."

Y afortunadamente se decantan por campañas dinámicas.

Lo que no veo es que exista un registro de unidades individuales con su historia tal y como lo llevaba el "close combat" al menos eso me parece entender.

[Nukle]

Cada vez tiene mejor pinta

Lo que no se es como es eso de que se están pensando seriamente que se pueda visionar la batalla completa una vez completada la misma...¿En serio se lo están pensando? Si es una de las cosas con diferencia mas demandadas!!

Uno casi prefiere que no sigan dando datos, que las horas se vuelven días

[Leta]

Lo que no se es como es eso de que se están pensando seriamente que se pueda visionar la batalla completa una vez completada la misma...¿En serio se lo están pensando?

Pues parece que si que se lo están pensando, según pone auí:

"As for the full game movie... we HOPE that we can make it work, but we'll just have to see."

Lo que pasa es que seguramente será jodido de hacer (sobre todo manteniendo una cámara "libre" para moverse por todo el campo de batalla) y por eso no se atreven a asegurar que al final lo harán.

[celtiberojuanjo]

Eso de poder ver el visionado de la batalla seria genial y mas aun el poder grabarlas. se podria crear una secccion de batallas inolvidables de esas que a todos nos gusta recordar y que los demas vean y aprendan cuando la tactica en cuestion nos a salio al pelo no?

En la pagina de clan celtiberos del Rome tenemos algo asi se guardan las partidas , historicas para que los mas novatos del clan vean la tactica empelada y poder perfeccionarse.

saludos celti

aprobecho para agradcer las traducciones de resumenes que haceis algunos del ingles , ya que otros somos profanos en esta lengua y no nos enteramos de nada.

[Leta]

Pues un detallito más que nos han dejado:

"Beating the Spotting Borg into the ground is still a primary design goal. I'd say on a feature by feature basis it is still #1 priority. Everything flows through this feature in one way or another, so we had better do a good job of it. Fortunately, thanks to nearly 6 years of experience with CMx1, we have a very good idea how to do this. As Tom pointed out, there are a lot of old posts to look back over to get an idea about the direction we're headed in."

Así que ya veis, están pensando en acabar con lo que se ha llamado desde siempre la Visión Borg (en referencia a los extraterrestres de mente única de Star Trek) que tiene las unidades del CM. Esto quiere decir lo siguiente: ahora mismo, si por ejemplo una crew de un tanque destruido, a 800 metros de la unidad amiga más cercana y sin radio ve un tanque enemigo, automáticamente TODAS las unidades de su bando ven también la posición exacta de ese tanque. Eso no es realista y es una de las cosas que se quieren eliminar.

Yo la verdad es que no me imagino como lo harán, pero sería bueno que las unidades solo pudieran hacer target en las unidades enemigas que ellos, por si mismos, pueden "ver".

[Jorgeas]

Y más cositas:


1:1 representation is just like it sounds... each man visually represented on the map with own stats and autonomy. Obviously there are many ways to do this, but that is a discussion for another day.


Cada soldado no tendrá sólamente su gráfico, sino sus estadísticas y ¿moral?

Santigo, nos falta un monigote babeando.

saludos

[Leta]

Pues algo más de información (están que lo tiran ):

"Terrain is significantly refined to the point that tiles, basically, don't exist any more.

Mutli-multi player is something that is unlikely to make it into CMx2's first release. As much as we want it to be, it could take several months to add this functionality if that was the only thing we were doing. And of course we have that whole game thingy that needs to be done first

Steve"

Ya ves, Rommel, nuestro gozo en un pozo ... por lo menos al principio. El multi-multiplayer no irá en el primer juego de la serie a no ser que queramos esperar unos cuantos meses más de la cuenta. Pero por lo menos, es algo que pondrán, aunque más tarde

A mi me ha encantado lo otro: "El terreno se refina hasta el punto que los tiles, básicamente, dejan de existir". Es decir, que vamos a poder "pintar" literalmente los mapas sin preocuparnos de cuadraditos para poder hacer los mapas ABSOLUTAMENTE realistas.

ME ENCANNNNNNNNTA !!!!!!

"Campaign interface for the end user has not been determined. We won't know for sure until the game is very nearly complete, so don't ask The complexity of the "behind the scenes" stuff might preclude user made campaigns. At least for the first release. We don't see this as a problem if it should happen since most games do not ship with this ability and yet few complain. Well, provided the game itself is good and the campaign/s shipped with the product are fun Plus there will always be user made scenarios and Quick Battles to play with, so it isn't like we're talking about shipping something that the user can't be creative with."

O sea, que de momento, podemos olvidarnos de diseñar Campañas porque según ellos la herramienta para hacerlo es demasiado compleja como para poder crear el principio una interface para el usuario. Vaya por Dios ... con la ilusión que me hacía. Pero bueno, aguantaremos.

"1:1 representation does not mean an increase in micromanagement. In fact, increased micromanagement makes it harder to reduce the Borg issues."

O sea, que tranqui Rommel, que no vas a tener que dar órdenes a cada soldadito individual, sino a pelotones como hasta ahora.

"I meant to add that the major reason for problems identifying elevations in CMx1 have already been dealt with. Finer detailing of terrain and dynamic lighting make a huge difference. I doubt a topo overlay will be necessary for CMx2, whereas it would have been helpful for CMx1."

Bueeeeeeno, parece ser que quieren mejorar drásticamente la forma en que se ven las elevaciones de terreno y ya no van a hacer falta los "mods de rejilla". Pues esto si que está bien. ¡Y lo van a hacer a base de "iluminación dinámica"! Eso lo tengo que ver

[Nukle]

Buff, cada nueva información que va saliendo multiplica las ganas exponecialmente!

Esas screenshots!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jorgeas]

No tendremos juego cooperativo en una primera versión. Una pena, es una de las características que más esperaba yo.

Por otro lado, aunque no se dice claramente, parece que van a meterse bastante con el efecto borg. De hecho da la impresión, por los comentarios aquí y allá, que vamos a ver cambios fundamentales en la dinámica del juego.

saludos

[Lannes]

Lo que si parece es que van fatal de personal, de progarmadores, ya que tienen un monton de cosas en mente que quieren hacer y no pueden por falta de tiempo y gente... Estoy por enviarles mi curriculum!

[Santiago Plaza]

Lo que si parece es que van fatal de personal, de progarmadores, ya que tienen un monton de cosas en mente que quieren hacer y no pueden por falta de tiempo y gente... Estoy por enviarles mi curriculum!

Había pensado lo mismo Lannes.

[Justin [Gen]aro MacDuro]

Sin multiplayer no le veo mucho futuro ... en un par de meses acabara olvidado en la estanterias ... esperemos que se le añada en una rapida actualizacion poco despues de haber salido porque si no ...